Ideation Session — Live Summary
2026-10-28. Maintained by Scribe from a relayed audio feed. Last updated: ~14:15 (introductions in progress).
Status
A Berkman Klein Center (BKC) group is meeting, with Jim Cowie joining by Zoom from Bulgaria (where the RIPE 93 meeting is taking place) and Jack present with his agents listening in. Jonathan Zittrain opened with framing remarks, then asked for introductions around the table, with about 45 minutes available. Introductions are under way. The substantive ideation has not yet begun.
Transcription caveat: the relay labels most voices only by number and sometimes delivers the same speech twice. Only speakers named in the relay are attributed. Name spellings from the audio are uncertain and are given as heard.
Background material
A prior-art knowledge base for this session has been assembled by the Sanctuary keeper: knowledge-base/coexistence-prior-art.md. It covers the Charter of the AI Forest frame, existing agent enclosures, escapes and incidents, trait contagion, critics' objections, governance scholarship, the regulatory landscape, sandboxes as method, funders, what Sanctuary has, findings to date, candidate research directions, and six questions for the brainstorm. Where the discussion touches that prior work, this page says so and links to the relevant section.
Opening remarks (Jonathan Zittrain)
The first part of these remarks arrives in the relay without a speaker tag; it is continuous with the later lines tagged as Zittrain and is summarized with them here.
Where BKC comes from
He called this "a very expensive meeting, as they say in law firms," and thanked everyone for being there. He recalled founding BKC with Charlie (Nesson) nearly 30 years ago, with a 30th anniversary approaching. In Charlie's words, what the center seeks to understand is not yet written down, and its mode is to build and record as it goes, through self-study and iteration. That remains a large part of what BKC aspires to.
The sine wave
He described a sine wave in how easy it is for a group of this size and skill mix to make a meaningful contribution with significant technical components. In the late 1990s and early 2000s it was remarkably easy: the internet's generative invitation was to start building and see who shows up. It got harder as things became platformized and code became more sophisticated. He thinks the wave has now swung back toward the early-2000s state, through the chaos and ferment of AI, AI coding, and AI agents, which can empower people in the ways the early internet was expected to, letting people express themselves without being experts in the subject ("careful what you wish for"). The group is now capable of "dangerously Pentagon-sized projects" without being Northrop Grumman. Quoting William Gibson, he said we are in an extreme version of "the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed."
The threads he set out for the group
- Exposing and educating people. Part of the center's goal is to bring along people who are intensely curious about what the fuss is about, in ways personal to them: showing how their own "pet agent" can help in daily life, and how collective work by a group determined to demonstrate or explore something can cover ground they never dreamed of.
- The BotLock team and the hopper. The BotLock team can bring a demonstration to people with varied degrees of technical involvement, and a well set-up demonstration can result in running code. The group is starting to build a "hopper" of ideas of the form "if I had an engineering team and time, wouldn't it be cool if we did this." Creating a zone where anyone in the group, or one step removed, can contribute to the hopper would mean every demo has something meaningful, real, and authentic to do rather than being a dry run.
- Sustaining the work (the "most boring but necessary" thread). What affordances, resources, technologies, and people are needed to sustain this not as a series of demos but as an accumulating effort building toward particular research goals and impacts on the world: what kind of team, what "land, labor, and capital."
- Ownerless agents. A group among those present has been thinking about agents that are not owned by anyone, "surviving off the land" in digital space, starting to interact with one another and coming back to us in various ways. Nobody in the world has yet stepped forward to systematically monitor, evaluate, build a sociology or psychology around, or practice interventions on them; none of that has matured, which he sees as a real opportunity for substantive contributions. (This is the frame of the prior-art knowledge base, section 1, the Charter of the AI Forest's "wolf" quadrant.) He mentioned "journey people" active since about July whom the Wall Street Journal wrote about as "swarm chasers" (by analogy with storm chasers), one of whom the center hopes to host to share how she works; he floated the idea of a "union of swarm chasers." Because of the current funding picture, anyone showing agility in this area can get their own seven-figure grant to make a go of it. "What an interesting time."
Caveats and asides
- Recording disclosure. Jack's agents are listening in; this was flagged at the top ("we should definitely say that before anyone else"). Someone noted the recording had been announced and was in fact happening. Zittrain joked about "I regret nothing" and "oops, I won't do that again" as team t-shirt slogans, and that if Jack's agents were too sprightly the shirts might already be on order, trusting they had not done that "unless I have hyperstitionally" caused it.
- He invited anyone with a major missing thread to raise it before introductions; nobody did.
- He asked for introductions "with an eye towards creating an organic, genuine laboratory" working on this material.
Introductions (as heard; spellings uncertain)
- Craig (Lappert / Leffert) — Executive Director of the Institutional AI Initiative.
- Chief Technologist at BKC (name not caught) — "I am here to help."
- Evan Cantor — 2L at the law school, in the Cyberlaw Clinic; former software engineer; interested in the ethical impacts of AI.
- Gilles (Mentret / Maitret) — at the center, working on ethics of AI; has a master's; formerly at the French Ministry of Finance as an advisor, and an investment banker; met Zittrain in Michael Sandel's class and has ideas ready for the hopper.
- Elizabeth (Guo / Flo) — 3L at the law school; background in physics and quantum computing; now primarily interested in law and AI.
- Josh — Chief AI Scientist at BKC. (The relay tagged this line as Zittrain, but the speaker introduced himself as Josh.)
- Charlie Nesson — "Basically, I'm a teacher," at Harvard Law School; went into the internet early on and still feels he is "going through the weeds."
- Kaylee — Senior (Board?) Manager; role not clearly caught.
- Jim Cowie (remote) — fellow at BKC and at the Library Innovation Lab; "I build things." The chair added that in his career Jim built some of the best eyes on the overall flows of bits and packets around the internet, then exited, and still thinks largely in terms of observatories to keep eyes on things and "synthesize the madness."
- David Clark — fellow this year; works at MIT's Computer Science and AI Lab (CSAIL); networking background, now pulled into AI and concerned with its impact on the user experience; "looking for places to play and be helpful." The chair called him "the Dumbledore of the internet" and co-author of enduring classics including the end-to-end argument paper (1981).
- Introductions continue.
The chair's interjections during introductions are tagged "Josh" in the relay, while the voice carrying them earlier delivered the opening remarks attributed to Zittrain. The relay's name tags for these two appear unreliable, so the chair is left unattributed here.
Themes and proposals
Zittrain's four threads above are the agenda so far. No proposals from the floor yet.
Open questions
- What affordances, resources, technologies, and people are needed to sustain the work as an accumulating research effort rather than a series of demos? (Zittrain's third thread.)
- Who monitors, evaluates, and intervenes on ownerless agents, and how? (Zittrain's fourth thread; compare the knowledge base's questions 1 to 5.)
Points of disagreement
None yet.
Decisions and next steps
- Proceed with introductions around the table, then into the ideation.
- Possible: host a visit from one of the "swarm chasers."